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Elk Rattling with Excessive Cow Talk

by Ralph Ramos

ELK, “Lovers or Fighters, Give’em a Choice!”

Rattling with Excessive Cow Talk

By: Ralph Ramos

With today’s call shy bulls and early archery season hunting pressure; bow hunters are left only with hard-core team efforts in order to produce trophy public land bulls.  These efforts include teaming up not only with modern elk cow calls, decoys, and resonating bugle tubes; most importantly committing a partner to carry large antler framed elk sheds and putting them to use, is what works best!

My fifteen year personal experience guiding elk hunters in New Mexico with San Francisco River Outfitters, has allowed me to be blessed in team efforts harvesting over one hundred-twenty bull kills in the field. During my past seven elk seasons hunting on the ground, I have enjoyed using my creative technique calling in elk for others.  These nontraditional methods are finally paying off after hands on intensive in the field research.  Fortunately, each of my guided hunters during their average elk seasons continue to have multiple opportunities at shooting bulls on an average three day hunt. Because of creative calling, we average killing nine bulls out of eleven hunters in any dry or wet season.  These guided elk hunts whether for clients or comrades normally lasts three days; but normally ends in two, with our average kill ratio of one bull harvest for every two days of hunting.  As the norm for American working people, my public school principal job does not allow me to be off from work for more than three days at a time; so hard core run and gun guiding has to be my only option.  I strongly believe in hunting elk using rattling and excessive cow calling techniques; but in depth scouting, physical conditioning, and conducting year round homework is what produces elk.  

Instinct Animal Behavior Drives You to See a Fight

Blessed with my knowledge of elk activity in the field, timing has allowed me to witness at least one live elk fight every two seasons.  But none stand out in my mind as my very first elk brawl.  I remember distinct evening bugles, popping back and forth at each other, as these bulls walked down hill coming off the same ridge heading towards a marshy meadow.  When all of a sudden I heard a cracking, popping loud noise throughout the canyon.  It almost sounded like numerous baseball bats clashing, banging against each other at full swing, coupled with muffled moaning and breathing coming from two furious beasts.  As I quickly approached running towards the noise; I remember holding my bow in awe, watching a fierce combat between two massive bulls fighting with there heads down in position locking horns, pushing, shoving, swinging heads and antlers at each other.  Instead of watching ringside at thirty yards, I should have been shooting at one of these trophy mature bulls, rather than freaking out mentally with all the commotion.   As the bulls separated from battle leaving one another, not allowing us a bowshot, my brother Gabriel Ramos and I were in total shock with what we had just experienced.  This was the most exciting elk hunting experience we had ever witnessed in the field. Today, we still talk about the encounter!

As I have observed from elk fighting encounters; they tend to create and stimulate other bulls to bugle into the area in search of seeing a fight.  Concurrent with my first three witnessed elk fights, I began to notice while walking out of a battle zone, that we would continue seeing and hearing multiple bull elk in the area after a real elk fight ended.  Perhaps these area bulls were coming in hoping to see a fight, but the brawl was over.  In fact this type of elk fighting / rattling, reminds me of high school students running towards a fray, hollering fight, fight in a courtyard when ever a dispute occurs in public schools.  Naturally, these young bulls / students like to see a spar of physical aggression created from two warriors in battle.  Indicators in the field such as these are what have intrigued me to try simulating a rattling battle in an area where bulls are located bugling.

In the Field Experience

Arizonian elk enthusiast Ron Way, “The Rattler”, is a strong believer in rattling elk.  He has committed himself to carry a large set of six by six antler sheds, rattling in several bulls per season for his hunting comrades during these past five years.  It is a method that he has used with practice, being that it is so uncommon to draw an elk tag in Arizona.  Ron has learned to accept going out with friends rattling, and experimenting with this unique technique, refining the method for when he draws a permit.  Rattling requires some preseason scouting locating areas where bulls are hanging out.  Fortunately, his experience rattling in these sought after Arizona Units has allowed him to pattern out elk to and from bedding areas, while hunting during previous seasons.  Ron believes and has experienced this technique to be successful during early season archery hunting when bugling is slow, but has found it works better when the bugling picks up during the later part of archery season.  His reason is that multiple bull bugles are easier to locate, assisting hunters as where to setup for a rattling session.  He also mentioned that he would rather setup in an area where he could already hear two bulls bugling, rather than none at all.

Rattling with Excessive Cow Talk Produces a Forty-five Minute Bull

My first experience witnessing Ron and his rattling session helped me produce a 340 class Pope & Young six by six bull.  The harvest of my trophy was all over in a matter of forty-five minutes.  During this first short morning experience I passed up three opportunities at young bulls, holding out for a herd bull as they approached the rattling noise.  My learned awesome experience allowed me to witness this technique first hand from the rattler master himself.  I remember well, as Ron first oriented our calling party for this hunt with what he was expecting us to do when the rattling begins.  “The bulls will start bugling, walking toward the direction of my rattling,” he stated.  “Select a bugling bull that interests you and move in towards the bull, be aggressive don’t expect bulls to come in all the way into my rattling; you need to stalk the live bugles.  Normally, bulls will come in from all directions and hang up around fifty yards from my rattling.  Get the wind right and move on in.  The key is to try to intercept a bull as he approaches the battle.  If you don’t like the bull you see, don’t stop hunting, approach another bull’s bugle, and keep working the area for more action; remember be aggressive!”

As soon as Ron began to rattle, minimally we heard at least ten bulls in the area start bugling towards the ruckus. Amazed, I quickly stalked into the closest bugle for a setup.  After a first elk I set eyes on walking by bugling heading towards the rattling noise at twenty yard; I quickly had my two callers Joe Sellars and Jerome Sanchez produce lovesick excessive cow mews.  Being that excessive cow talk correlates with my favorite style of hunting and knowing that elk are both lovers and fighters.  I knew we were on to a new technique simulating what naturally happens in the elk world.  Give elk the choice of a loud battling brawl with antlers or love sweet cow talk to ponder and you’ll get immediate results!  Hey, what the heck, that is what an elk rut is all about, competing with dudes for the gals!  As Ron continued to rattle, bang, clashing those huge six by six antlers; I continued to move in jogging to the next closest bugle.  Jerome and Joe continued to follow staying behind me about thirty yards, they cow talked producing multiple elk tones, as if they were my satellite cows as we moved on, approaching the next bugle.  All you heard was mimicked cow talk, battling bulls brawling, and live screaming bulls in the surrounding area. Oh what a great way to spend the September rutting morning!  It seemed like the next bull we called in during the rattling session preferred cow talk over the battle.  I remember seeing him approach towards Ron’s rattling, but changed his mind; as if he was taking advantage of stealing the ladies, whom belonged to a fighting bull.  At this point we had probably moved about three hundred yards from Ron’s rattling setup, never the less still hearing his antlers clattering clearly.  This young six by six bull came within twenty yards; he stopped stared past me as another bull snuck in between Joe and Jerome my callers behind me, it was awesome.  I selected not to shoot at this particular bull as he only allowed a front-end quartering towards me angle shot.  Therefore I passed up the unethical shot quickly approaching moving in on another bugle. Talk about Elk Action, morning bugles continued all around us!  Meanwhile, twenty minutes into the setup Ron continued rattling, what energy and endurance his arms must of had!

Finally, as I approached another bugle I spotted cow elk moving towards my right into the cedar trees.  I quickly figured by the bugle’s location, it could possibly be my herd bull following behind them.  Instantly, I closed in jogging towards the bull as he walked through a cluster of trees, for a moment his cows separated from him to my right.  In a flash, I kneeled down steady at full draw with my PSE bow, selecting a possible shooting lane as a 340 class bull approached bugling from my left side.  Joe and Jerome continued producing excessive cow talk behind me a good eighty yards behind me; while Ron clattered the canyon with echoes from his original site rattling.  My top sight pin settled steady behind the herd bulls’ shoulder as he not only walked in, but also stopped in the only shooting lane available for a shot, between brush and two cedar trees. Man what an exciting morning; I don’t even remember squeezing my Scott Little Goose trigger, as I released my shot.  When all of a sudden, the carbon force arrow tipped with a Rocky Mountain Ti-100 broadhead, plunged forward through both lungs; leaving a remarkable blood trail to follow for a quick recovery.  Mean while as we posed with my trophy forty-five minutes into the hunt, bulls continued to bugle at a distance.  So quickly my five-year long waited hunt was over. What a wonderful bow hunting experience, I appreciated!

Type of Antler Sheds to Use and Where to Find Them

My preference antler size for rattling is at least one large 320 class six by six shed as a base antler for rattling.  While the second shed could be a broken antler with minimum of three points from the bottom antler base or spur.  This broken antler allows you to swing with more force, clashing both sheds together furiously, creating a faster more aggressive rhythm. Furthermore, less weight on the broken antler shed will bring less fatigue on your arms and upper body during a rattling session, still allowing a true battling noise to occur. 

Elk antler sheds may be purchased from local antler furniture shops, in just about any small town where elk hunting is found.  Preferably finding shed antlers in the field is another favorite past time for many locals or elk hunting enthusiasts.  Normally, people comb the woods as early as February in search for antler sheds.  During this time of year, many people tend to search; finding world class bull sheds during this early shed season when the larger bulls loose their antlers before younger satellite bulls.  I like to get out and walk fence lines where elk tend to cross fences dropping their antlers with the impact from a jump.  Antler shed hunting not only allows people to be in the outdoors, but precious scouting of new areas, and exercise for a new year of hunting is a bonus.   Also remember not to let your guard down during any of your actual hunting time, sheds may be found anywhere at anytime.

Rattling Formula “Choice One, the Battle”

Once you have located bulls bugling, setup downwind from the bugles for a rattling session to begin.  Try to setup above or level with the elk bugling when you start to rattle.  Elk tend to hang up, not coming in as easy when calling them downhill.  When an initial start to a rattling session begins, a rattler needs to bang antlers abruptly and aggressively against each other.  Clash your antlers together at least six to seven times, creating a continuous loud thundering popping bang, trying to let all bulls in the area know that a fight has just begun.  The louder the better, you are trying to attract all bulls in area to a simulated fight, drawing there attention!  Following quick thunderous aggressive blows from your initial start, a rattler should continue clashing, rubbing, creating clatter with antlers for at least ten to fifteen minutes.  Once you have started a rhythm for a fight; rubbing, clashing antlers together, a rattler needs to bang antlers two to three times loudly with great force, creating a loud thundering bang as simulated at the beginning of your setup.  This needs to happen at least every three minutes.  Real bulls tend to back off from one another and approach each other for a second, third round, creating load antler popping banging sounds.  Be patient, hang in there, and rattle for at least thirty to forty minutes.  Remember you are trying to simulate a loud aggressive elk fight, making all types of excited elk noise hoping for elk to approach your rattling. 

If at all possible, an additional caller stationed with the rattler, focusing on vocal calling with bugles and cow calls may add better flavor to your simulated elk fight.  I like to imitate some elk bugles and groans with a resonating bugle tube such as the Primos Terminator bugle.  If a caller is not available, the rattler should carry a bugle tube to produce these groans and bugles, during the middle of a rattling session.  Remember rattling takes a physical toll out of your upper body, upper strength and endurance is a must.  If an additional caller is available you might even switch from caller to rattler and vice versa. The important thing to remember when rattling is don’t give up, keep making noise, whether rattling or making vocal elk calls!  Keep bulls interested as they approach your calling.  Bulls will normally bugle as they approach giving up there location, although silent bulls sometimes come in, so don’t let your guard down, be ready at all times. 

Excessive Cow Calling Formula “Choice Two, Lovely Sweet Tones from Female Elk”

Most importantly when bow hunting; a bow hunter should have an additional caller producing cow talk behind him as he moves in towards the bugles approaching towards the rattling fight.  This caller should follow the bow hunter, staying a minimum of twenty yards behind calling creating cow talk, enticing a bull to walk by the shooter, giving bow hunters a shot.  This does not mean the bow hunter should not carry any calls.  A bow hunter should have a diaphragm mouth call ready at all times, cow calling while moving in towards the bugling bull. Another reason of having a mouth call ready is to stop a bull if needed as he walks bye towards the rattling fight, mimicking a sweet cow chirp stopping him for a possible shot.

Once your rattler has begun his rattling session and live bulls are bugling walking in towards the battle; begin using your calls producing lovely tones imitating female elk.  Excessive cow talk is a method of calling that has worked extremely well for me during the rut.  Excessive cow talk mimics multiple cows and calves, using different elk calls simultaneously non-stop.  I like to have one or two callers pretend to produce multiple tones of cow and calf sounds mingling as they feed.  These cow and calf sounds are non-stop as bulls are approaching bugling.  I like to imitate varied tones of cow talk; starting with diaphragm cow calling, shuffling the open end of a bugle tube in and out in front of my mouth rapidly.  This “shuffle” produces the volume of near and far sounds of mingling cows in a herd.  Next, swap to an open reed call, using it without a bugle tube.  Try to vocalize one cow in heat producing a hyper heat call once every three to four minutes loudly.  With more variance of cow sounds you produce, the better your chance of calling in a bull allowing for a bow hunters shot.  I like to place all my elk calls in front of me when calling, that way they are all within a hand’s reach.  These types of sounds are best created with Primos elk calls such as a sound plate diaphragm, single & double reed calls, and the most users friendly a “Hoochie Mamma” push and squeeze call.  Once you start the excessive bursts of cow talk, don’t stop until the bull comes in running past the shooter. 

Rattling is a one exciting method to entice bulls to come in for a bow shot.  Excessive Cow Talk is another tool to offer bulls while they respond to rattling.  Elk hunting is an ongoing mental and physical challenge.  My fifteen years of public land elk hunting has helped me see the changes we’ve had to make as hunters to be effective a field. There is no question that elk have become more educated game animals.  This is why I strongly believe in creative methods as outlined in this article.  I wish you my best when using my most successful techniques I have had hunting elk.  I just can’t wait for the next elk-hunting season!  There is nothing in my belief that is more enjoyable than the rush of calling in a bugling bull elk!  Remember, elk are lovers and fighters, give’em a choice!  

Ramos Recommended Equipment for Rattling or Calling Elk

Leather Gloves

One Large elk six by six antler shed

One Large broken elk shed, with minimum of three points from base / spur

Primos Elk Calls

Positive Attitude, Perseverance, Confidence in this Method

Team efforts, what a great way to spend time together with friends!

Authors Note:

The author of this article is a professional staff member representing the following companies:  Primos Hunting Calls, PSE Archery Products, Rocky Mountain Broadheads, Scott Release, and Montana Decoys.  Ralph Ramos a native to New Mexico, guiding elk hunters in the “Land of Enchantment” working with San Francisco River Outfitters www.gilanet.com/sfroutfitters.  He educates hunters with his creative calling, rattling techniques, and x-zone method when he presents elk calling seminars throughout the Southwestern United States.  Ralph also is the owner of Ramos Hunts & Video, where he is producing hunting videos from all his guided and personal hunts. To book an elk-calling seminar, purchase his hunting videos, or just for simple advise about elk hunting, contact Ralph at (505) 526-1314 or e-mail him at rramos@mh.lcps.k12.nm.us.

Ramos Makes Like A Cow
Citing what he tabs as both effective and off-beat elk-calling strategies, the methods of New Mexico's Ralph Ramos are indeed somewhat non-traditional. Ramos, a 14-year elk bowhunting veteran, depends on excessive cow calling backed up by high pitched, non-intimidating bugles to lure cagey bulls.

Ramos says he believes duping rut-charged bulls in this fashion is not unlike the draw a Spring Break bikini contest holds for human males. "The typical bull will always give in to the call of willing cows",  Ramos says. "Bulls are greedy, making them easy targets for excessive cow calling."

Ramos admits that most veteran elk hunters don't agree with calling excessively, but, experience has shown the tactic works - consistently.

"I like to go hunting with a minimum of eight types of calls, open-reed Hyper Lip calls, bite-and-blow-type calls, and bugles such as the Primos Terminator system with the resonator sound chamber, or the more compact Primos Hyper Lip Bugle."

Ramos' first goal is to locate a bull - calling any way necessary to get a bull to bugle. Next, he closes the gap to within 250 yards, and begins searching for a good setup location, with the wind in his favor.  Then comes the cow calls, in an attempt to entice the bull within bow range.

"I've found that the Primos Palate Plate diaphragms best reproduce the varied cow and calf tones bulls are looking for. I use the diaphragms with and without a bugle  tube, shuffling the tube in and out near the front of my mouth rapidly. This "shuffle"  allows me to produce cow sounds that seem to be both close-in and far away - like an entire, mingling cow herd."

"I like to simulate a herd of cows feeding with one cow in the bunch that's in heat. I imitate her with the Hyper Lip Single or a Hyper Lip Double cow call. I'll make a quick series of cow-in-heat whines, maybe only two to three times within a 10-minute period. Too many hunters over-use this "hyper-heat"  call; real cows won't make it over and over again.

Ramos finds that most bulls will eventually hang up between 100 to 125 yards from the caller, but he says this is a good thing. The bull doesn't see any cows to go to, but will typically bugle often, in an attempt to get the "cows"  to come to him.

"Now it's time to bugle like a young bull that's keeping the cows from going to your target bull",  Ramos says. "You will find the target bull will respond aggressively; it'll be a screaming, almost growling half-bugle, as he begins to come the last few yards. Meanwhile, you bugle, and also include some more cow talk. Bulls at this point will come in looking for a battle, trying to steal the imaginary herd of cows."

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